netdog
Jul 31, 01:46 AM
but what I am trying to say is, that I disagree about reception of Verizon: it's very good, and especially so outside of the major business cities like NYC and Washington. My wife's T-Mobile often is out of range when we travel, and we have to use my Verizon phone.
That is only because CDMA had such a jump on GSM in the USA, and the GSM carriers in the USA are still smaller. Verizon also has a massive analog network that T-Mobile won't touch as their phones are GSM only.
Unfortunately, the free market approach adopted when installing networks in the USA has led to a number of problems, and while you might think Verizon service is good relative to the other US carriers, it cannot compare to the carriers in Europe who use a shared GSM network that was adopted after much deliberation. Like most of the world, we are GSM-only.
That is only because CDMA had such a jump on GSM in the USA, and the GSM carriers in the USA are still smaller. Verizon also has a massive analog network that T-Mobile won't touch as their phones are GSM only.
Unfortunately, the free market approach adopted when installing networks in the USA has led to a number of problems, and while you might think Verizon service is good relative to the other US carriers, it cannot compare to the carriers in Europe who use a shared GSM network that was adopted after much deliberation. Like most of the world, we are GSM-only.
X2468
Mar 31, 06:14 AM
Translation:
We were all wrong but we won't admit it so now we say that it's an internal secret ... :rolleyes:
Sounds just like some bloke from Apple. Snow Leopard's the last of the true desktop OS's. Lion is the bridge, and whatever follows will either be primarily iOS, or so close it's of little consequence. I'm so glad I hung onto my 2010 MBP.
Let's not forget it was the iPod that saved Apple and marked it's beginning as a gadget & entertaiment company. I had a nasty feeling then it would mark the decline of Apples great computers & here we are. How ironic it is that most people are unaware that a Brit actually invented the iPod and like so many other things, Apple stole the thing and ran with it. True "innovators" at Apple, yeah right.
We were all wrong but we won't admit it so now we say that it's an internal secret ... :rolleyes:
Sounds just like some bloke from Apple. Snow Leopard's the last of the true desktop OS's. Lion is the bridge, and whatever follows will either be primarily iOS, or so close it's of little consequence. I'm so glad I hung onto my 2010 MBP.
Let's not forget it was the iPod that saved Apple and marked it's beginning as a gadget & entertaiment company. I had a nasty feeling then it would mark the decline of Apples great computers & here we are. How ironic it is that most people are unaware that a Brit actually invented the iPod and like so many other things, Apple stole the thing and ran with it. True "innovators" at Apple, yeah right.
treblah
Aug 4, 12:08 AM
I dont' think either one of us are feeling angry toward one another are we?
Absolutely not. It was just a good old fashioned conversation. And I look forward to more in the future. :)
Absolutely not. It was just a good old fashioned conversation. And I look forward to more in the future. :)
wangagat
Jul 21, 03:35 PM
Remind us about what? Please be a little less cryptic because some people are tired here :p
lol sorry... just saying that products dont necessarily have to wait the 6 month grace period before bein upgraded.
iMac was drastically upgraded from G5 to Core Duo after just 3 months.
Could be the same with the current line-up.
lol sorry... just saying that products dont necessarily have to wait the 6 month grace period before bein upgraded.
iMac was drastically upgraded from G5 to Core Duo after just 3 months.
Could be the same with the current line-up.
Manic Mouse
Sep 11, 08:51 AM
I really think they should have a seperate app for the movies/tv shows, or rename and overhaul iTunes. Making things too complicated and hard to use is something Apple strives against and by incorperating too much functionality into a MUSIC player will make it hard to use and confusing for customers. iTunes, strangely, should be for "tunes". It makes no sense, at least from the name, to think that there would be movies/tv shows in there.
Why not take the DVD-player app in OSX and turn that into the new TV show/Movie player (as well as DVDs) while iTunes plays MP3/CDs. That makes much more sense. You should also be able to rip DVD's though this new app as you would CDs in iTunes.
Why not take the DVD-player app in OSX and turn that into the new TV show/Movie player (as well as DVDs) while iTunes plays MP3/CDs. That makes much more sense. You should also be able to rip DVD's though this new app as you would CDs in iTunes.
smoketetsu
May 6, 08:11 AM
Oh this rumor rearing its ugly head again. First of all is intel really stagnating so much that they would want to make this switch?
Also doesn't anyone realize that just because an OS runs on a different architecture that doesn't mean all the apps made for it will suddenly run with 100% compatibility and speed? When I say this I mean that for Windows as well. So Windows 8 is going to have an ARM version. Good luck running Crysis 2 on that (for starters.. just an example).
Also simpler applications may just need a recompile. But there are many others that would need much more than just a simple recompile. There are also many many others that wouldn't get either treatment and simply wont perform well or have good compatibility (or even work at all) for a long long time if ever. I know some developers who probably would laugh at you if you told them it'll just be a simple recompile for them. That kool-aid wasn't true in the transition to x86 either. We still have software that hasn't made the transition that would benefit from it but will simply by orphaned when rosetta is killed off in Lion. I hear people fretting because of that and having to scramble to get x86 versions of that software whether it be through bootcamp or WINE.
Speaking of which; when apple switched to x86 they gained a lot of compatibility benefits that would be dumped if\when they switch to ARM. When going from PPC to x86 I quickly started finding more software becoming available or possible to get going due to the compatibility increase of the new architecture. We would be taking a step or more backwards with ARM. Like for example there was quite a bit of software had intel specific optimizations or functions that became available for use in OS X when updating them to intel or universal binaries... this includes Windows software that ran very well because no actual emulation was involved.
Of course many casual users wouldn't care about any of that.... and there's a lot of front facing iOS software that could be easily ported. Like if an applications's engine is already available for both it's already easy to make a Mac and iOS version of the application. But the whole platform would become a lot less appealing for someone like me. I never used rosetta much as on my Core based Mac it really only worked well for me for the simplest things... like a text application I would use to post to a blog.... some application with 2D graphics.... CPU emulation tends to be dog slow and this is on the currently best performing desktop CPUs.
So you may look forward to this possibly happening but I don't. I guess I could see Apple doing it especially since they seem to be keen on having a post-PC world. But in my opinion they'd more likely dump the Mac altogether and have an iOS dominated future in the cards and if you want a Personal Computer you have to get a non-apple PC.
It's good for a company to keep its options open but just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. But then again I guess I could see them doing it and waving goodbye to those who don't like it.
Also doesn't anyone realize that just because an OS runs on a different architecture that doesn't mean all the apps made for it will suddenly run with 100% compatibility and speed? When I say this I mean that for Windows as well. So Windows 8 is going to have an ARM version. Good luck running Crysis 2 on that (for starters.. just an example).
Also simpler applications may just need a recompile. But there are many others that would need much more than just a simple recompile. There are also many many others that wouldn't get either treatment and simply wont perform well or have good compatibility (or even work at all) for a long long time if ever. I know some developers who probably would laugh at you if you told them it'll just be a simple recompile for them. That kool-aid wasn't true in the transition to x86 either. We still have software that hasn't made the transition that would benefit from it but will simply by orphaned when rosetta is killed off in Lion. I hear people fretting because of that and having to scramble to get x86 versions of that software whether it be through bootcamp or WINE.
Speaking of which; when apple switched to x86 they gained a lot of compatibility benefits that would be dumped if\when they switch to ARM. When going from PPC to x86 I quickly started finding more software becoming available or possible to get going due to the compatibility increase of the new architecture. We would be taking a step or more backwards with ARM. Like for example there was quite a bit of software had intel specific optimizations or functions that became available for use in OS X when updating them to intel or universal binaries... this includes Windows software that ran very well because no actual emulation was involved.
Of course many casual users wouldn't care about any of that.... and there's a lot of front facing iOS software that could be easily ported. Like if an applications's engine is already available for both it's already easy to make a Mac and iOS version of the application. But the whole platform would become a lot less appealing for someone like me. I never used rosetta much as on my Core based Mac it really only worked well for me for the simplest things... like a text application I would use to post to a blog.... some application with 2D graphics.... CPU emulation tends to be dog slow and this is on the currently best performing desktop CPUs.
So you may look forward to this possibly happening but I don't. I guess I could see Apple doing it especially since they seem to be keen on having a post-PC world. But in my opinion they'd more likely dump the Mac altogether and have an iOS dominated future in the cards and if you want a Personal Computer you have to get a non-apple PC.
It's good for a company to keep its options open but just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. But then again I guess I could see them doing it and waving goodbye to those who don't like it.
ZAiPhone
Mar 30, 08:01 AM
And if you stop subscribing?...What happens to your music files stored in the cloud?
Who cares, you can download it any time to any computer. Talking as a new user of this service, who has used it. You buy music for less than iTunes. I got a free upgrade to 20 GB. Then when can down load everything in your cloud which is DRM free to any computer you're logged in to. I could not care less about the player. The way less restrictive cloud storage is a huge bonus. Yes I know MP3 is not as good as AAC if you're an audiophile and if you are then you're playing lossless made from CD or Vinyl. Amazon is a super simple and easy to use UI with far less restrictions than apple. Not knocking apple I have an iPhone4, iPad2 and 2010 MBP.
Who cares, you can download it any time to any computer. Talking as a new user of this service, who has used it. You buy music for less than iTunes. I got a free upgrade to 20 GB. Then when can down load everything in your cloud which is DRM free to any computer you're logged in to. I could not care less about the player. The way less restrictive cloud storage is a huge bonus. Yes I know MP3 is not as good as AAC if you're an audiophile and if you are then you're playing lossless made from CD or Vinyl. Amazon is a super simple and easy to use UI with far less restrictions than apple. Not knocking apple I have an iPhone4, iPad2 and 2010 MBP.
Consultant
Mar 29, 08:57 AM
And Amazon thinks crippling ioS compatibility will be good business? FAIL.
KREX725
Jul 29, 10:33 PM
While I'm sure if it is true, it'd be a cool phone, but it just seems like one of those rumours that comes up occasionally and then goes away, just like the Tablet Mac.
Normally I would agree, but then Steve hit us with the Intel switch and shook up all my feelings about long-term rumors that come and go.
Normally I would agree, but then Steve hit us with the Intel switch and shook up all my feelings about long-term rumors that come and go.
gnasher729
Apr 7, 11:55 AM
And just how could Apple be found to be absuing its position by buying what it needs to supply its customers whith product? Maybe if the iPad wasn't selling all that well but Apple can't keep up with demand as it is. Arguments like yours don't even make sense and I'll bet you some serious money that no one can produce a single instance of a company "found to be abusing its position" by buying what its needs to produce and sell its products. It would appear people like you are just angry that Apple is successful and want to take it down somehow. Stupid, just stupid.
The critical question would be: In the contract between Apple and the manufacturer, is there any clause that stops the manufacturer from selling to other companies? That would be anti-competitive. If a manufacturer says "RIM offered us $100 a piece for one million screens", and Apple says "We'll give you $110 for each" and RIM can't get the screens, that would be fine. If the manufacturer says "we can make 2 million screens a month" and Apple says "Ok, we'll buy 2 million screens a month", that is fine. If Apple says "Ok, we'll buy all you can build up to 3 million screens a month", that is fine. If Apple says "We'll buy 2 million screens a month, and you must not sell any screens to anyone else", that is anti-competitive.
I see people still don�t understand what a monopoly is. Apple would only be considered a monopoly if they used their power & influence to force the component supplier to cancel or move Apple�s orders ahead of RIM�s or any other.
You confuse "monopoly" and "anti-competitive". Being a monopoly is in itself just fine. It just means that you have to be more careful what you do than other companies, because what you do could be anti-competitive. For example, Microsoft has a monopoly in the operating system market. They can't refuse to sell Windows to Dell without getting into lots of trouble. Apple can refuse to sell MacOS X to Dell without getting any trouble. And people often confuse "competitive" and "anti-competitive". Being better than the competition is competitive. If company X makes a product that is a lot better than Y's product, and Y doesn't sell anything, that is competitive. "Anti-competitive" is when X does things so that Y couldn't sell their product even if it was better. For example, if the Windows license said that you are not allowed to use any word processor other than Microsoft Word, that would be anti-competitive, because even if I had a word processor that was better and cheaper than Microsoft Word, nobody would buy it.
The critical question would be: In the contract between Apple and the manufacturer, is there any clause that stops the manufacturer from selling to other companies? That would be anti-competitive. If a manufacturer says "RIM offered us $100 a piece for one million screens", and Apple says "We'll give you $110 for each" and RIM can't get the screens, that would be fine. If the manufacturer says "we can make 2 million screens a month" and Apple says "Ok, we'll buy 2 million screens a month", that is fine. If Apple says "Ok, we'll buy all you can build up to 3 million screens a month", that is fine. If Apple says "We'll buy 2 million screens a month, and you must not sell any screens to anyone else", that is anti-competitive.
I see people still don�t understand what a monopoly is. Apple would only be considered a monopoly if they used their power & influence to force the component supplier to cancel or move Apple�s orders ahead of RIM�s or any other.
You confuse "monopoly" and "anti-competitive". Being a monopoly is in itself just fine. It just means that you have to be more careful what you do than other companies, because what you do could be anti-competitive. For example, Microsoft has a monopoly in the operating system market. They can't refuse to sell Windows to Dell without getting into lots of trouble. Apple can refuse to sell MacOS X to Dell without getting any trouble. And people often confuse "competitive" and "anti-competitive". Being better than the competition is competitive. If company X makes a product that is a lot better than Y's product, and Y doesn't sell anything, that is competitive. "Anti-competitive" is when X does things so that Y couldn't sell their product even if it was better. For example, if the Windows license said that you are not allowed to use any word processor other than Microsoft Word, that would be anti-competitive, because even if I had a word processor that was better and cheaper than Microsoft Word, nobody would buy it.
Popeye206
Apr 5, 03:15 PM
My beef is - Apple expect me to pay $99 to be able to put my own applications on my own device. On a yearly basis.
I understand why apple do this - people *may* start side-loading applications and thus apple will lose downloads from its appstore ( i.e., free applications - you'd still *buy* your apps from the AppStore ).
Having said that the amount of people that would go this route would be minimal, since you have to compile the application beforehand.. ( mention the word 'compile' alone is enough to deter people ). The majority would just stick to the convenience of AppStore.
Yes, I understand why apple don't like Toyota doing this - its encouraging people to JB their device and potentially degrade their iOS experience, which then reflects upon Apple. However, people should only JB if they understand that doing so voids their warranty AND *may* degrade their device performance.
Your quoting of 'Scion' is short sighted. Had Apple let this fly without comment - replace 'Scion' with 'Others' . Though, you may find the themes 'ugly' others may not.
What smartphone company charges $1500 for a developer license?
Again... I don't think Apple should have let this fly. It was a bad call by Toyota to encourage such a thing as JB'g to the general public. Not cool, and it's not for everyone.
As for the developers license, I didn't say smart phone companies... I said developer programs. Adobe has one. Oracle, MS, many do and they are way more expensive than $99.
I understand why apple do this - people *may* start side-loading applications and thus apple will lose downloads from its appstore ( i.e., free applications - you'd still *buy* your apps from the AppStore ).
Having said that the amount of people that would go this route would be minimal, since you have to compile the application beforehand.. ( mention the word 'compile' alone is enough to deter people ). The majority would just stick to the convenience of AppStore.
Yes, I understand why apple don't like Toyota doing this - its encouraging people to JB their device and potentially degrade their iOS experience, which then reflects upon Apple. However, people should only JB if they understand that doing so voids their warranty AND *may* degrade their device performance.
Your quoting of 'Scion' is short sighted. Had Apple let this fly without comment - replace 'Scion' with 'Others' . Though, you may find the themes 'ugly' others may not.
What smartphone company charges $1500 for a developer license?
Again... I don't think Apple should have let this fly. It was a bad call by Toyota to encourage such a thing as JB'g to the general public. Not cool, and it's not for everyone.
As for the developers license, I didn't say smart phone companies... I said developer programs. Adobe has one. Oracle, MS, many do and they are way more expensive than $99.
aliveandknowsit
Apr 26, 03:54 PM
I've watched Apple go from "outsider" to The Big Heavy in The Room, innovating about as quickly as a battleship takes to turn around, focusing on beauty, beauty, beauty as Android allowed its system to be used in some butt-ugly phones that -- hey! -- actually seemed to work pretty well, to the point where they are refined to become exciting looking, versatile systems that JUST GET THINGS DONE. The iPhone has become a Thin Fashion Model, and we are all just paparazzi awaiting her entrance/exit at Cannes each year (San Francisco). I've had it, and will be happy to pick up a great Android system phone this year on Verizon. (Oh yes, and MobileMe was a total bust; after upgrading it wouldn't pick up my contacts anymore....)
KnightWRX
Apr 6, 07:35 AM
Apple brought design elements to desktops and delivered us from the tan box tower.
Apple wasn't the first to break from the Beige box syndrome. ;) In fact, I think I know where they got the idea for the Blue G3 case :
http://blakespot.com/sgi/images/sgi_open1.jpg
Apple wasn't the first to break from the Beige box syndrome. ;) In fact, I think I know where they got the idea for the Blue G3 case :
http://blakespot.com/sgi/images/sgi_open1.jpg
Thex1138
Mar 26, 10:40 PM
iOS is centric to iPhone and I can't really see why the sudden shift from the status quo.
The scorching success of iPhone 4 hand set is really setting the pace.
The Lion revision of OSX will probably see much more inheritance of features and the ap-verse of iOS.
In my view the real buzz for iOS 5 might be the appearance of the whole swag of new touch gestures that Apple have been working on and previewed in the recent beta.
That along with the cloud, NFC and maybe 4G.
I think that the only thing that might trigger iPad 3 to market could be the success rate of OLED screen manufacture process. Currently I take it that for larger screens the death rate of OLED pixels seems too high.... Either that or a retina level of screen res might trigger iPad 3 to market by years end.
:)
The scorching success of iPhone 4 hand set is really setting the pace.
The Lion revision of OSX will probably see much more inheritance of features and the ap-verse of iOS.
In my view the real buzz for iOS 5 might be the appearance of the whole swag of new touch gestures that Apple have been working on and previewed in the recent beta.
That along with the cloud, NFC and maybe 4G.
I think that the only thing that might trigger iPad 3 to market could be the success rate of OLED screen manufacture process. Currently I take it that for larger screens the death rate of OLED pixels seems too high.... Either that or a retina level of screen res might trigger iPad 3 to market by years end.
:)
flopticalcube
May 4, 03:49 PM
The entire idea of restoring from a Time Machine backup has always been illogical to me.
If Time Machine backs up everything, then it backs up whatever problems you had that resulted in your need for restore.
Time Machine has limited real use, and its basically limited to accidentally deleting things.
Indeed, which is why I also do a Carbon Copy Clone once in a while. Most people, for some reason, just use Time Machine. Maybe they never have encountered a catastrophic disk failure. Seems like a big risk to take.
If Time Machine backs up everything, then it backs up whatever problems you had that resulted in your need for restore.
Time Machine has limited real use, and its basically limited to accidentally deleting things.
Indeed, which is why I also do a Carbon Copy Clone once in a while. Most people, for some reason, just use Time Machine. Maybe they never have encountered a catastrophic disk failure. Seems like a big risk to take.
NAG
Apr 25, 09:43 AM
Android is funded by target advertising? I didnt know that, can you provide a link that backs this up?
We really playing this game now?
We really playing this game now?
CiBoys
Aug 4, 11:55 PM
O man, so many years of waiting for a new look of what was known as the AI PowerBook. Now they aren't releasing it yet, i cross my finger. PLEASE CHANGE THE LOOK ALREADY!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: if not i'll just get an iMac :( :( :(
ergle2
Sep 17, 02:32 AM
I don't think you have to worry... I highly doubt a keyboard change. I would love a little more key travel on the current MBP keyboard, but obviously they would have to make the MBP thicker - so I'll live ;)
I don't remember who said it (after reading over 200 posts!), but I agree that the MBP 15'' 1-3 day shipping vs the 17'' 5-7 (or was it 8-10) day shipping is merely due to lower stock on the 17'', not a sign of a 17'' only update. I would think they probably manufacture and sell at least 2X the number of 15'' vs 17'' MBP's.
Apple wants their Pro line to be visibly different at a glance. This has been true for years. I don't see that changing now. Based on that, I agree with you that it's unlikely they'd adopt an MB keyboard for the MBP. They certainly don't want people to think it's "just" a silver MB, after all!
I'd figure on the 15" sales being considerably higher than just double due to the 17" being considerably more expensive.
Of course, it's arguable they serve different markets with some overlap rather than being in direct competition...
I don't remember who said it (after reading over 200 posts!), but I agree that the MBP 15'' 1-3 day shipping vs the 17'' 5-7 (or was it 8-10) day shipping is merely due to lower stock on the 17'', not a sign of a 17'' only update. I would think they probably manufacture and sell at least 2X the number of 15'' vs 17'' MBP's.
Apple wants their Pro line to be visibly different at a glance. This has been true for years. I don't see that changing now. Based on that, I agree with you that it's unlikely they'd adopt an MB keyboard for the MBP. They certainly don't want people to think it's "just" a silver MB, after all!
I'd figure on the 15" sales being considerably higher than just double due to the 17" being considerably more expensive.
Of course, it's arguable they serve different markets with some overlap rather than being in direct competition...
Jelite
Mar 29, 01:37 PM
I don't trust corporate clouds, especially with a service that Sony is clearly gunning for legally.
I suggest Subsonic. It streams music from your Mac or PC to your iPhone, Android phone, or Win7 phone. It also allows you to stream from another computer via a web browser. And it's free! Own your data, create your own cloud.
http://www.subsonic.org/pages/index.jsp
This is exactly what im talking about, why pay for cloud storage when you already have all you need to make your own?
I suggest Subsonic. It streams music from your Mac or PC to your iPhone, Android phone, or Win7 phone. It also allows you to stream from another computer via a web browser. And it's free! Own your data, create your own cloud.
http://www.subsonic.org/pages/index.jsp
This is exactly what im talking about, why pay for cloud storage when you already have all you need to make your own?
GoodWatch
Apr 5, 02:06 PM
Apple is a business whose mission is to sell phones, computers, and software. You as a customer buy those products, but they are designed by Apple. If you have a problem with Apple establishing a standard across its products to ensure quality, then you can just stop using them. That easy, just stop buying Apple products and stop using them, period.
Apple sells me their products at a phenomenal margin but after that I'm the owner. If I want to throw my iPhone into a lake, it's up to me. (Bar the environmental issues). If I want to jailbreak, it's up to me. If I want to apply a theme made by a car manufacturer it's up to me. So please stop using those dogmas. Every time something like this is reported, fanboys start using those wafer thin arguments. We aren't brainwashed drones, are we?
Apple sells me their products at a phenomenal margin but after that I'm the owner. If I want to throw my iPhone into a lake, it's up to me. (Bar the environmental issues). If I want to jailbreak, it's up to me. If I want to apply a theme made by a car manufacturer it's up to me. So please stop using those dogmas. Every time something like this is reported, fanboys start using those wafer thin arguments. We aren't brainwashed drones, are we?
Kalach
May 6, 02:16 AM
I don't like the sound of this at all! :(
j_maddison
Mar 30, 06:45 PM
This question is primarily because I have a Macbook Air.
If Apple are going to release this via the App Store (assuming the speculation is true), does this mean that you don't have to burn Lion to a disk to install it? Or would I have to transfer it to some sort of USB drive first?
I guess I'm asking if you can just double click it in your downloads folder and run the OS installation from there
If Apple are going to release this via the App Store (assuming the speculation is true), does this mean that you don't have to burn Lion to a disk to install it? Or would I have to transfer it to some sort of USB drive first?
I guess I'm asking if you can just double click it in your downloads folder and run the OS installation from there
coolcom
Mar 30, 06:09 PM
I'm downloading it as well, but I have no icon on my dock to show me the progress! AppStore said the download had started, but I see no icon. I tried to Redeem my code again, but it said it had already been redeemed. My bandwidth monitor is reporting a solid 600KB/s down though... hopefully it works!
GregA
Jul 31, 12:51 AM
Just wondering - what would happen if Apple allowed Airport Extreme/Express etc (AND every Mac which has Wireless) to become a hub that anyone with a .Mac account could log in to and use?
Basically, as a Mac owner with a wireless card, you could elect to share your bandwidth for $5/GB (or something appropriate depending on country). Any .Mac subscriber could use your connection, and it would credit your .Mac account (redeemable on .Mac fees, roaming onto other people's networks, iTMS, or Apple store).
How much coverage would you get through this? Would it be legal?
Basically, as a Mac owner with a wireless card, you could elect to share your bandwidth for $5/GB (or something appropriate depending on country). Any .Mac subscriber could use your connection, and it would credit your .Mac account (redeemable on .Mac fees, roaming onto other people's networks, iTMS, or Apple store).
How much coverage would you get through this? Would it be legal?