SandynJosh
Apr 23, 09:41 PM
I will be honest and truthful and say for a mobile device on batteries, I'm very impressed as what the iPhone and iPad can do gaming wise.
However I will also state, and I think we all should be honest, that at the moment, Apple are bringing the games DOWN to what their hardware can do, as opposed to making Hardware so great that gaming is being pushed UP to take advantage of Apples industry leading performance.
In your first paragraph you talk about Apple's mobile products, which is where Apple will be putting most of their effort in the foreseeable future. To have successful portable products, having a long time between charges is highly important. The old brute force methods of throwing power and RAM at the gaming performance problem can not be part of the design mindset. Game designers know this and are becoming much better at coding for portable games, but they are not quite there yet. Meanwhile Apple is working to find ways to build in performance and not increase power draw.
THIS is the future as Apple sees it, and their acceptance in the broad general market shows that they are on the right track.
When Apple release GTX580 beating desktops, and/or Xbox360 / PS3 beating gaming devices, I will happily bow down to them being the greatest in graphics.
NOW you have switched to talking about desktop and console gaming computers. THIS is a whole different area. First off, it's a tiny segment of the whole computer market. It's big, but not nearly as huge as what Apple is aiming for with their products.
In a nutshell, Apple's strategy is to capture the mobile device market as completely as they can. They are being highly successful at that strategy from iPods to iPhones, to iPads, to Laptops.
Meanwhile they are growing rapidly in the iMac desktop and tower market due primarily to the halo effect of their success in the portable arena. They are doing this even while the desktop and tower markets are shrinking overall. Can you see why Apple will not be putting a lot of effort into this segment?
But right now, they are trailing by miles due to years of neglect as they just did not have products that could compete, and their one semi attempt at a console got nowhere.
Note: I would LOVE LOVE LOVE Apple to turn this around.
You are right. Apple did not have products that could compete in the desktop and console markets. This was primarily due to game developers not interested in writing games for Intel chips and PowerPC chips. Since the installed base for Intel-based computers was more then a order-of-magnitude larger than the installed base of Macs. Apple was never going to enjoy being a suitable gaming platform until they switched to Intel CPUs.
Once Apple made the switch, they have come a long way towards being an acceptable gaming computer, but they have no desire or plans to go after the high end of this market... it's just not that profitable or large. Remember AlienWare? They had the best gaming computer, IMO, and they had to sell themselves to another company to stay alive.
As for the console market, it's crowded with established competitors and will likely see one squeezed out. Not the kind of market that Apple or anyone else should want to jump into.
They need to ditch the "Laptops on a Stand" design of the iMac for starters, but I feel they never will as they have decided they won't compete and they cannot compete in this sector of the market.
I addressed this above. As for the "Laptops on a Stand" design, it's such a bad design that the largest computer company, HP, as well as others, have copied it.
Console wise, I'm not sure they could compete against a 360 or a PS3. Let's say Apple against a PS4 or a Xbox720
Nope, can't see that happening either.
I address this above. Apple doesn't want to be in this arena. It's small and the competition is deadly.
The low power/trimmed down, casual gamers games, seems to be the only area they are going for.
Once more you are correct. There are many many times more gamers that want a short diversion while they have a few minutes away from home, then those who want to spend thousands on an immersive game experience that requires a larger block of time. "Portability with games optional" trumps "wired to the wall and game-focused" all the way to the bank.
But Again, I would LOVE Apple to turn this around and take high end graphics seriously in their future products.
The high-end gamer is not on Apple's radar at the moment and likely never will be unless a way is found to address hi-end graphics on a portable device without impacting battery life.
I know you'd like Apple to chase this rainbow, but they won't, there's no pot of gold at the end.
However I will also state, and I think we all should be honest, that at the moment, Apple are bringing the games DOWN to what their hardware can do, as opposed to making Hardware so great that gaming is being pushed UP to take advantage of Apples industry leading performance.
In your first paragraph you talk about Apple's mobile products, which is where Apple will be putting most of their effort in the foreseeable future. To have successful portable products, having a long time between charges is highly important. The old brute force methods of throwing power and RAM at the gaming performance problem can not be part of the design mindset. Game designers know this and are becoming much better at coding for portable games, but they are not quite there yet. Meanwhile Apple is working to find ways to build in performance and not increase power draw.
THIS is the future as Apple sees it, and their acceptance in the broad general market shows that they are on the right track.
When Apple release GTX580 beating desktops, and/or Xbox360 / PS3 beating gaming devices, I will happily bow down to them being the greatest in graphics.
NOW you have switched to talking about desktop and console gaming computers. THIS is a whole different area. First off, it's a tiny segment of the whole computer market. It's big, but not nearly as huge as what Apple is aiming for with their products.
In a nutshell, Apple's strategy is to capture the mobile device market as completely as they can. They are being highly successful at that strategy from iPods to iPhones, to iPads, to Laptops.
Meanwhile they are growing rapidly in the iMac desktop and tower market due primarily to the halo effect of their success in the portable arena. They are doing this even while the desktop and tower markets are shrinking overall. Can you see why Apple will not be putting a lot of effort into this segment?
But right now, they are trailing by miles due to years of neglect as they just did not have products that could compete, and their one semi attempt at a console got nowhere.
Note: I would LOVE LOVE LOVE Apple to turn this around.
You are right. Apple did not have products that could compete in the desktop and console markets. This was primarily due to game developers not interested in writing games for Intel chips and PowerPC chips. Since the installed base for Intel-based computers was more then a order-of-magnitude larger than the installed base of Macs. Apple was never going to enjoy being a suitable gaming platform until they switched to Intel CPUs.
Once Apple made the switch, they have come a long way towards being an acceptable gaming computer, but they have no desire or plans to go after the high end of this market... it's just not that profitable or large. Remember AlienWare? They had the best gaming computer, IMO, and they had to sell themselves to another company to stay alive.
As for the console market, it's crowded with established competitors and will likely see one squeezed out. Not the kind of market that Apple or anyone else should want to jump into.
They need to ditch the "Laptops on a Stand" design of the iMac for starters, but I feel they never will as they have decided they won't compete and they cannot compete in this sector of the market.
I addressed this above. As for the "Laptops on a Stand" design, it's such a bad design that the largest computer company, HP, as well as others, have copied it.
Console wise, I'm not sure they could compete against a 360 or a PS3. Let's say Apple against a PS4 or a Xbox720
Nope, can't see that happening either.
I address this above. Apple doesn't want to be in this arena. It's small and the competition is deadly.
The low power/trimmed down, casual gamers games, seems to be the only area they are going for.
Once more you are correct. There are many many times more gamers that want a short diversion while they have a few minutes away from home, then those who want to spend thousands on an immersive game experience that requires a larger block of time. "Portability with games optional" trumps "wired to the wall and game-focused" all the way to the bank.
But Again, I would LOVE Apple to turn this around and take high end graphics seriously in their future products.
The high-end gamer is not on Apple's radar at the moment and likely never will be unless a way is found to address hi-end graphics on a portable device without impacting battery life.
I know you'd like Apple to chase this rainbow, but they won't, there's no pot of gold at the end.
2 Replies
Apr 26, 02:42 PM
Once again, the seperating into 'smartphone' and 'tablet' markets makes little sense.
As the capabilities of both devices grow we'll soon find that the only difference between the two is screen size.
Do we consider the 13" Macbook to be in a different market than the 15" Macbook Pro? No, they're both laptops.
And thus, everyone will soon wake up and realize that ALL iOS devices should be compared against ALL Android devices. These 'smartphone only' lists may still make sense in but in 2 or 3 years these kind of measurements will be seen as worthless.
Your argument is so inane it's barely worth a reply.
You do realize that not all tablets require a contract, right?
When it comes to laptops, the only thing that's different between a 13" and a 15" will be the screen size. But a tablet and a phone are INHERENTLY different.
My android tablet is wifi only and serves a totally separate function from my iPhone, my windows laptop, my linux server-cluster or my HTPC.
So why should tablets be dumped into the same category as mobile phones? Just because they share a slightly similar form-factor?
What if the next trend in smart phones is a clam-shell form-factor? Or a wearable hud? Or some implantable device?
Similar form factor does not mean their sales figures can, or should be compared.
Apple's to f'n oranges.
You're basically saying ... meh, they're both round and edible so they're the same.
As the capabilities of both devices grow we'll soon find that the only difference between the two is screen size.
Do we consider the 13" Macbook to be in a different market than the 15" Macbook Pro? No, they're both laptops.
And thus, everyone will soon wake up and realize that ALL iOS devices should be compared against ALL Android devices. These 'smartphone only' lists may still make sense in but in 2 or 3 years these kind of measurements will be seen as worthless.
Your argument is so inane it's barely worth a reply.
You do realize that not all tablets require a contract, right?
When it comes to laptops, the only thing that's different between a 13" and a 15" will be the screen size. But a tablet and a phone are INHERENTLY different.
My android tablet is wifi only and serves a totally separate function from my iPhone, my windows laptop, my linux server-cluster or my HTPC.
So why should tablets be dumped into the same category as mobile phones? Just because they share a slightly similar form-factor?
What if the next trend in smart phones is a clam-shell form-factor? Or a wearable hud? Or some implantable device?
Similar form factor does not mean their sales figures can, or should be compared.
Apple's to f'n oranges.
You're basically saying ... meh, they're both round and edible so they're the same.
Old Smuggler
Sep 11, 02:31 AM
I hope that the free iPod nano educational deal is still in effect if new iPods are released this week.
seriously doubt it
its just a way to make a little more money off the existing ipods and reduce stock before the changeover
seriously doubt it
its just a way to make a little more money off the existing ipods and reduce stock before the changeover
kavika411
Mar 29, 08:43 AM
I'm glad Amazon rolled this out before Apple in the sense that I hope it pushes Apple to roll out a cloud subscription that handily beats Amazon's offering.
andiwm2003
Jul 21, 03:06 PM
.........................................3) The MacBook won't see an upgrade for a few months - maybe a speed bump in September, but otherwise, I wouldn't expect Core2Duo in it by maybe December or MWSF '07. Till then, your MB will be perfectly fine.
the macbook was released mid may 06. so i would expect some update in october given the fast processor updates.
certainly a good time for mac users.:)
the macbook was released mid may 06. so i would expect some update in october given the fast processor updates.
certainly a good time for mac users.:)
kadajawi
Aug 7, 05:45 PM
Noticed that if you take down the HD to 160 GB you safe enough money to buy another 250 GB HD? Now 160 + 250 makes 410 GB... essentially for the work of building it into the computer, which, as Apple tells us, should be pretty easy. Hmm...
I wish they would sell a baseline version with some sort of a single Core 2 Duo CPU and onboard graphics... anything to reduce price but keep it possible to upgrade.
I wish they would sell a baseline version with some sort of a single Core 2 Duo CPU and onboard graphics... anything to reduce price but keep it possible to upgrade.
Don't panic
May 3, 01:58 PM
when the villain places monsters/traps, are they one per turn or any number per turn (provided that he has them)?
can monster be moved to a different room by the villain after they are placed? can he reorganize them at every round? does it cost points? can traps be moved? are all traps the same (cost and damage)?
if a villain needs to go through a room where he placed a trap, can he temporarily disable it?
can monster be moved to a different room by the villain after they are placed? can he reorganize them at every round? does it cost points? can traps be moved? are all traps the same (cost and damage)?
if a villain needs to go through a room where he placed a trap, can he temporarily disable it?
AZREOSpecialist
Apr 18, 03:16 PM
Wow apple is way out of line here, this is not right. That's like if the first company to create a netbook sued every other company who made a netbook afterward.
Apple does not license elements of its OS to others, unlike Microsoft. There is no reason for one netbook maker to sue another when they both license their OS from Microsoft. The only IP among netbook makers is any proprietary software and hardware design. The two issues are completely different. Apple actually owns the patents to those things they are suing over.
Apple does not license elements of its OS to others, unlike Microsoft. There is no reason for one netbook maker to sue another when they both license their OS from Microsoft. The only IP among netbook makers is any proprietary software and hardware design. The two issues are completely different. Apple actually owns the patents to those things they are suing over.
r0bert99
Sep 15, 04:58 PM
MacShrine? Who?
What's their record?
they're alright. they had exclusive pictures of mac os x 10.3 and 10.4 before wwdc, and got lots of iPod things right (like dropping the gold mini, size bumps...) as well as as Mac updates such as Xserves, iMacs and iBooks. the only real fiasco they've had was that whole ipod video thing in march, but to be fair everyone fell for that, even thinksecret and appleinsider, macshrine were just the first to publish them.
i'm psyched about the updates, i want a magnetic latch!
What's their record?
they're alright. they had exclusive pictures of mac os x 10.3 and 10.4 before wwdc, and got lots of iPod things right (like dropping the gold mini, size bumps...) as well as as Mac updates such as Xserves, iMacs and iBooks. the only real fiasco they've had was that whole ipod video thing in march, but to be fair everyone fell for that, even thinksecret and appleinsider, macshrine were just the first to publish them.
i'm psyched about the updates, i want a magnetic latch!
_White_1.jpg "sony ericsson vivaz pro u8i.")
ksgant
May 4, 05:29 PM
keep in mind, right now exactly 0% of the products sold on the app store will run without the OS already installed.
I didn't know this. You mean I have to have an OS installed before I play Angry Birds?
I didn't know this. You mean I have to have an OS installed before I play Angry Birds?
_Black_1.jpg "sony ericsson vivaz pro u8i.")
Chundles
Aug 3, 08:58 AM
How You Do Dat? :eek:
Um, surely you're not that silly.
He was giving a "SteveQuote" similar to the one from WWDC '05 along the lines of "Oh by the way if you look up here you'll see this whole presentation is running on Intel processors."
Um, surely you're not that silly.
He was giving a "SteveQuote" similar to the one from WWDC '05 along the lines of "Oh by the way if you look up here you'll see this whole presentation is running on Intel processors."
toddybody
Apr 25, 09:00 AM
I'm not impressed if this is where the iMac display is potentially going , the current GPUs can barely drive the resolutions they have now in anything other than simple desktop apps . , can you imagine what video card you would need to drive a game (say portal 2 which has low to modest requirements) at 30fps + on a screen with 3200 or higher resloution ? Well whatever that GPU is , apple will ship with the one released 2 years ago and half the RAM it shipped with on the PC .
I love the mac OS , I love the mac design , I hate the "last years tech with a shiney shell" we seem to have to put up with , super high res screens and faster I/O ports are all well and good , but put a decent GPU in now the mac is becoming a contender as a home gaming platform .
Think I ranted a bit then , sorry :rolleyes:
Nightarchaon, youre my hero. All the conjecture about future hi res displays aside...the current iMac is almost crippled with its current GPU options. At 2560x1440...it should have something equivalent to an HD 6950/GTX 570. Given that those cards would blow past any thermal limits Apple has set...iMac owners are in a bit of a graphical quandary. It's an utterly gorgeous machine, superb display, great CPU, decent RAM, sufficient HDD options. But those graphics? :eek: SP cores and clock rates aside...it should have 2GB of VRAM(frame buffer) at that res.
I love the mac OS , I love the mac design , I hate the "last years tech with a shiney shell" we seem to have to put up with , super high res screens and faster I/O ports are all well and good , but put a decent GPU in now the mac is becoming a contender as a home gaming platform .
Think I ranted a bit then , sorry :rolleyes:
Nightarchaon, youre my hero. All the conjecture about future hi res displays aside...the current iMac is almost crippled with its current GPU options. At 2560x1440...it should have something equivalent to an HD 6950/GTX 570. Given that those cards would blow past any thermal limits Apple has set...iMac owners are in a bit of a graphical quandary. It's an utterly gorgeous machine, superb display, great CPU, decent RAM, sufficient HDD options. But those graphics? :eek: SP cores and clock rates aside...it should have 2GB of VRAM(frame buffer) at that res.
snberk103
May 5, 06:34 PM
...
I don't doubt scientists when they advocate for the metric system, in science. Howeve, since most of the advantages of the metric system are really reserved to the sciences, the question of whether or not everything in life should be metric really isn't a scientific one; it's an economic and convenience one. ....
sony ericsson vivaz pro u8i
Sony Ericsson U8i Vivaz Pro
2 pcs Sony Ericsson U8 U8i Vivaz Pro Screen Protector - Military Grade Click To Enlarge
Sony Ericsson U8i Vivaz Pro
Sony Ericsson U8i Vivaz Pro
Sony Ericsson U8i Vivaz Pro
I don't doubt scientists when they advocate for the metric system, in science. Howeve, since most of the advantages of the metric system are really reserved to the sciences, the question of whether or not everything in life should be metric really isn't a scientific one; it's an economic and convenience one. ....
Ryth
Apr 21, 08:07 PM
I need:
8 Internal Bays.
More PCIe Slots.
Thunderbolt.
Keep Dual Optical Bays.
More Ram Slots.
Built in Fibre Channel (This is a stretch)
That should be a MacPro. What you guys want is that magic headless iMac. I want more, not less.
Working in Video I need the most horsepower possible. 32 Cores would be nice.
At home I can live with my iMac, but editing on it is a pain. A MiniMacPro might work there, but it will still cost 2k and people will bitch.
For work I can justify spending $8,000 on a high powered PRO machine.
I want to know what type of video you are doing because we sure don't need that and we do high end video editing for National Geographic/Discovery/Smithsonian.
Unless you are doing Hollywood stuff, I see no need for half the stuff you listed.
More internals and PCIE slots? For what? Almost all of our clients are delivering tapeless now and on externals. Dual optical bays? Seriously? Fibre is a must if you are in a post house.
Please leave the dual super drives Apple! We pros still need those to author DVDs!
Seriously? We also do full DVD high end hollywood type authoring at my facility (have been for 10+ Years) and Blu-Ray authoring and we have no need for internal optical super drives.
You guys seriously need to unhinge yourselves from those internal drives...lol :)
8 Internal Bays.
More PCIe Slots.
Thunderbolt.
Keep Dual Optical Bays.
More Ram Slots.
Built in Fibre Channel (This is a stretch)
That should be a MacPro. What you guys want is that magic headless iMac. I want more, not less.
Working in Video I need the most horsepower possible. 32 Cores would be nice.
At home I can live with my iMac, but editing on it is a pain. A MiniMacPro might work there, but it will still cost 2k and people will bitch.
For work I can justify spending $8,000 on a high powered PRO machine.
I want to know what type of video you are doing because we sure don't need that and we do high end video editing for National Geographic/Discovery/Smithsonian.
Unless you are doing Hollywood stuff, I see no need for half the stuff you listed.
More internals and PCIE slots? For what? Almost all of our clients are delivering tapeless now and on externals. Dual optical bays? Seriously? Fibre is a must if you are in a post house.
Please leave the dual super drives Apple! We pros still need those to author DVDs!
Seriously? We also do full DVD high end hollywood type authoring at my facility (have been for 10+ Years) and Blu-Ray authoring and we have no need for internal optical super drives.
You guys seriously need to unhinge yourselves from those internal drives...lol :)
johneaston
Apr 18, 05:06 PM
targeting the Korean companies, "Galaxy" line of Android-based smartphones and tablets.
Company's. If only people knew how to spell.
Company's. If only people knew how to spell.
DakotaGuy
May 6, 12:20 AM
This seems like an inevitable move in the convergence of iOS devices and Mac computers. They will eventually be the same thing. Powerful, robust, thin, power efficient, easy to use touch interface. Lion is moving in the direction of the iPad and iOS in general. The iPad has been gaining more Mac-like features and robust applications. I think the time tables are probably off. I don't see this happening for 4 to 5 years at the earliest.
So basically what you are saying is that in a few years Apple will make everything an iDevice and if you want a computer that is actually a Personal Computer you will have no choice but to buy a Windows PC? Goodbye Thunderbolt. Hello Apple 30 pin connector!
So basically what you are saying is that in a few years Apple will make everything an iDevice and if you want a computer that is actually a Personal Computer you will have no choice but to buy a Windows PC? Goodbye Thunderbolt. Hello Apple 30 pin connector!
Brometheus
Apr 25, 09:26 AM
I think Steve is outright lying about this.. I don't think most people aren't fond of this, including myself..
My opinion is that he's probably not lying. He's parsing his words in his usual terse style. Steve is not denying the existence of a record of each user's location. He's denying the accusation that Apple uses this information to track individual users. He's implying that it's being used for some other purpose.
My opinion is that he's probably not lying. He's parsing his words in his usual terse style. Steve is not denying the existence of a record of each user's location. He's denying the accusation that Apple uses this information to track individual users. He's implying that it's being used for some other purpose.
puuukeey
Jul 30, 12:28 PM
If apple can make it so that cellphones don't suck the user into a void where s/he unaware that they are pissing the living ***** out of everyone around them, well then they are TRUE gods
AZREOSpecialist
Apr 26, 03:05 PM
Who cares? I thought this was macrumors not android news...
Stop living in a vacuum.
Stop living in a vacuum.
chasemac
Jul 30, 01:12 AM
I think it's real. No signs of photoshopping and the pic was taken in an elevator :D
Awesome!:) Its real. Go ahead, verify the source!:)
Awesome!:) Its real. Go ahead, verify the source!:)
l008com
Jul 29, 08:55 PM
I read somehwere that the iPhone has been ready to go for a while, the problem is all the greedy scum bag cell providers want to get paid $1 every time a customer puts a song on their phone, where as apple wants people to load up their phone for free just like they do with an iPod. Without the providers on board, you won't get [Retail $350, with 2 Year Plan $50] for the phone, you'll just get [Price $350].
Anyway I'm on verizon and its been nothing but problems with them for the past year or so. Their 'can you hear me now' network has turned into the 'what? hello? HELLO? *click*' network. I'll be happy to switch if the new phone is not on verizon.
Anyway I'm on verizon and its been nothing but problems with them for the past year or so. Their 'can you hear me now' network has turned into the 'what? hello? HELLO? *click*' network. I'll be happy to switch if the new phone is not on verizon.
Mac'nCheese
Apr 9, 09:32 PM
Oh, I can admit when I'm wrong. I used to believe in protecting tenure for teachers. See?
Then we can end this on agreement. I don't believe in it too. My wife should keep her job if and only if she continues to do it well not because its near impossible to fire tenured staff. But don't think I missed your sarcasm...
Then we can end this on agreement. I don't believe in it too. My wife should keep her job if and only if she continues to do it well not because its near impossible to fire tenured staff. But don't think I missed your sarcasm...
Don't panic
May 5, 04:44 PM
We have axes. How about cutting a shortcut through a floor, wall, or ceiling :eek: .
On another note, how many above ground floors does this house have ? From the outside, we would have seen how many floors the house has.
if nothing happens in the next few minutes, i am about to prepare some goblin stew.
On another note, how many above ground floors does this house have ? From the outside, we would have seen how many floors the house has.
if nothing happens in the next few minutes, i am about to prepare some goblin stew.
valkraider
Apr 26, 03:02 PM
Except that each and every single person who has purchased an Android phone could have purchased an iPhone instead. The fact there is one Android phone or ten Android phones is irrelevant. Every one of those people could have chose to buy an iPhone. They didn't.
Only true in the sense that every Honda Fit owner could have chose to buy an Audi R8 but didn't.
Not every Android device is purchased. My brother has one only because IT WAS FREE (and he has no clue how to use even 10% of the functions). He has never once purchased an app.
Only true in the sense that every Honda Fit owner could have chose to buy an Audi R8 but didn't.
Not every Android device is purchased. My brother has one only because IT WAS FREE (and he has no clue how to use even 10% of the functions). He has never once purchased an app.