whatever
Aug 7, 04:23 PM
Thats a little better, but what about having a single processor $1500 model like they used to do with the G4s? If Apple really wants to build their market share, they have to realize that people often buy PCs because they can be customized and some of those people don't want $2500 computers. Not having a customizable model in the desktop lineup that is under $2000 is a bad idea.
One of the big complaints I hear about Dell from my friends in IT that buy computers for our company (10,000+ employees) is that Dell has to many product lines and to many options. All with prices and specs that change daily.
Are you forgetting that you can buy a Mac for as low as $599.00 and it's customizable too!
People who are buying Mac Pros are not the casual shopper, who walks into an Apple store to look at the latest iPods and walk out with a computer (those people buy iMacs).
One of the big complaints I hear about Dell from my friends in IT that buy computers for our company (10,000+ employees) is that Dell has to many product lines and to many options. All with prices and specs that change daily.
Are you forgetting that you can buy a Mac for as low as $599.00 and it's customizable too!
People who are buying Mac Pros are not the casual shopper, who walks into an Apple store to look at the latest iPods and walk out with a computer (those people buy iMacs).
dr_lha
Aug 11, 10:45 AM
The link that was posted was to a Conroe chip. mashinhead asked for third party upgrades for the the current Yonah based line here. #64 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2708950&postcount=64)
Conroe cannot fit into Merom's socket.
Which is exactly what I said in my post.
I'm totallly confused as to why you're saying I was wrong here. The chip linked was Conroe, I said:
There is no current Mac that this chip can "drop into", apart from maybe a Mac Pro, but going from a Woodcrest to a Conroe would be a downgrade in that case.
The Merom that should eventually go into the iMac, mini, MBP and MacBook are currently not on sale to the consumer.
Exactly what was wrong with this again, apart from your not reading it correctly?
Conroe cannot fit into Merom's socket.
Which is exactly what I said in my post.
I'm totallly confused as to why you're saying I was wrong here. The chip linked was Conroe, I said:
There is no current Mac that this chip can "drop into", apart from maybe a Mac Pro, but going from a Woodcrest to a Conroe would be a downgrade in that case.
The Merom that should eventually go into the iMac, mini, MBP and MacBook are currently not on sale to the consumer.
Exactly what was wrong with this again, apart from your not reading it correctly?
Nishi100
Apr 20, 08:05 AM
Damn it. That means I'll always have to upgrade my iPhone every September. So, I'll buy the iPhone 5 this September, then I'll upgrade next September for the iPhone 6 with a 4inch screen and 4G :D; but, is there a limited time window in which you upgrade, because I don't want to lose out 2 months of texts / calls / internet (if I upgrade in July 2012).
samiwas
Apr 19, 11:09 AM
I don't think anything will get done with the extreme left and extreme right fighting it out.
With America's bleak looking future (S&P put a warning out today), something definitely has to be done. These small $10bil cuts over 10 years is not nearly enough. Those cuts are the same as me using pennies from those "Give a penny, take a penny" trays. They are moot and mean nothing.
The US needs is a complete overall of its spending and tax code.
Spending: Post every single line item on the internet so the people can see where the money is going. Place mandatory cuts on everything. Each department should be given a % of the country's income and that's all they get. NO MORE ISSUING DEBT.
Taxes: Throw away the 1 million pages of tax codes and create something much more simple. Tax income (not necessarily rates) will have to go up in order for America to survive.
-However, if income taxes go up, then make sales tax illegal. Since we are having problems with sales tax on online purchases in individual states, then just get rid of the program all together. It doesn't make sense anymore unless we have a VAT, which Americans can't afford. Sales tax is a double tax anyway. I already paid taxes on the money used to buy the goods, so why pay again?
-EVERYONE needs to pay taxes. No more of this "45% of people don't pay anything." There should be a mandatory minimum rate that you cannot drop below no matter how many deductions you have. This could be as simple as your taxes cannot drop any more than 33% of your current tax bracket. So, If you are in a 10% bracket, your taxes will be no less than 7.66%.
-Capital gains tax should only affect people making more than 50% (or some other %) of their income from capital gains. This will allow the average family to invest their money and contribute to the marketplace without being taxed on money that they already paid taxes on. Sure, they may make money or lose money on their investment, but let's cut them a break since they are using hard earned money. As for people who make more than 50% of their income from capital gains, tax them at the regular income rates.
I'm not against tax increases as long as the country is using it as a last resort. I want to see a massive effort by both parties to fix our current deficit issue. Taxes are inevitable, but lets make a good effort to reduce spending before that happens. I want to see the government act responsibly before I give them more money.
I can't believe I'm almost agreeing with someone who has a picture of George Bush as their avatar. :D
I don't fully agree with "every item needs to be cut" in spending. We honestly do not need to be cutting education any more, as it's been the first on the chopping block for every cut thus far. The education system has its problems, that's for sure, but cutting its budget will only create more. Almost everything else could easily see some cuts, especially defense. I think the cuts should come from finding waste and fraud in the larger social programs, which I'm sure is rampant. But finding those would probably cost as much money as it saves.
Fully agree on simplifying tax code. The tax code is out of control and should be much, much simpler. There are things in there that must involve three people in the country. "Do you own land on which a blue house stands that was flooded on the second Tuesday of any month ending in an 'y'?" I think most deductions could be done away with, especially the really specialized ones.
Not sure how sales tax cutting would help the states, as they are the ones who are receiving that income. I wish STATE income tax returns would be simplified, especially for non residents. My non-resident California state return this year was larger than my federal return. That's BS. A non-resident tax return should be a post card: I made $xxx in your state, your rate is x%, I owe $xx.
Indeed, everyone should pay some sort of tax, even if it's only a few percent. If you get that back in social services, then great, you win. But everyone should put something in the pot.
I can go with your capital gains idea, but I might even go lower than 50% as the starting point. Our household income is just over six figures, and I have a bit over the six-figure mark in various investments currently. My Capital Gains last year? $35. A whopping .03%. Obviously, last year wasn't the best investment year, but I think the 50% mark could be high. Say anyone with over 30% in capital gains...it's not money they "worked hard" for, so they can't use that argument. It's basically free money.
With America's bleak looking future (S&P put a warning out today), something definitely has to be done. These small $10bil cuts over 10 years is not nearly enough. Those cuts are the same as me using pennies from those "Give a penny, take a penny" trays. They are moot and mean nothing.
The US needs is a complete overall of its spending and tax code.
Spending: Post every single line item on the internet so the people can see where the money is going. Place mandatory cuts on everything. Each department should be given a % of the country's income and that's all they get. NO MORE ISSUING DEBT.
Taxes: Throw away the 1 million pages of tax codes and create something much more simple. Tax income (not necessarily rates) will have to go up in order for America to survive.
-However, if income taxes go up, then make sales tax illegal. Since we are having problems with sales tax on online purchases in individual states, then just get rid of the program all together. It doesn't make sense anymore unless we have a VAT, which Americans can't afford. Sales tax is a double tax anyway. I already paid taxes on the money used to buy the goods, so why pay again?
-EVERYONE needs to pay taxes. No more of this "45% of people don't pay anything." There should be a mandatory minimum rate that you cannot drop below no matter how many deductions you have. This could be as simple as your taxes cannot drop any more than 33% of your current tax bracket. So, If you are in a 10% bracket, your taxes will be no less than 7.66%.
-Capital gains tax should only affect people making more than 50% (or some other %) of their income from capital gains. This will allow the average family to invest their money and contribute to the marketplace without being taxed on money that they already paid taxes on. Sure, they may make money or lose money on their investment, but let's cut them a break since they are using hard earned money. As for people who make more than 50% of their income from capital gains, tax them at the regular income rates.
I'm not against tax increases as long as the country is using it as a last resort. I want to see a massive effort by both parties to fix our current deficit issue. Taxes are inevitable, but lets make a good effort to reduce spending before that happens. I want to see the government act responsibly before I give them more money.
I can't believe I'm almost agreeing with someone who has a picture of George Bush as their avatar. :D
I don't fully agree with "every item needs to be cut" in spending. We honestly do not need to be cutting education any more, as it's been the first on the chopping block for every cut thus far. The education system has its problems, that's for sure, but cutting its budget will only create more. Almost everything else could easily see some cuts, especially defense. I think the cuts should come from finding waste and fraud in the larger social programs, which I'm sure is rampant. But finding those would probably cost as much money as it saves.
Fully agree on simplifying tax code. The tax code is out of control and should be much, much simpler. There are things in there that must involve three people in the country. "Do you own land on which a blue house stands that was flooded on the second Tuesday of any month ending in an 'y'?" I think most deductions could be done away with, especially the really specialized ones.
Not sure how sales tax cutting would help the states, as they are the ones who are receiving that income. I wish STATE income tax returns would be simplified, especially for non residents. My non-resident California state return this year was larger than my federal return. That's BS. A non-resident tax return should be a post card: I made $xxx in your state, your rate is x%, I owe $xx.
Indeed, everyone should pay some sort of tax, even if it's only a few percent. If you get that back in social services, then great, you win. But everyone should put something in the pot.
I can go with your capital gains idea, but I might even go lower than 50% as the starting point. Our household income is just over six figures, and I have a bit over the six-figure mark in various investments currently. My Capital Gains last year? $35. A whopping .03%. Obviously, last year wasn't the best investment year, but I think the 50% mark could be high. Say anyone with over 30% in capital gains...it's not money they "worked hard" for, so they can't use that argument. It's basically free money.
gnasher729
Aug 12, 05:34 AM
I also think Apple will leave the MB with Yonah. They will want product differentiation and price differentiation.
So I think they will drop the price to <$1000.00 for MB and re-design MBP to provide enhancements similar to MB but with faster Merom CPU's and higher price than MB.
To be honest, I bought a MacBook and I am happy with it; it has best price/performance ratio of all the Mac notebooks and I didn't want to spend too much money (just bought it for fun). But if Apple tried to sell a MacBook with Yonah while selling MacBook Pro with Merom, where I know exactly that they could get Merom chips at the same price as Yonahs, just for "product differentiation", I would tell them to stuff it.
So I think they will drop the price to <$1000.00 for MB and re-design MBP to provide enhancements similar to MB but with faster Merom CPU's and higher price than MB.
To be honest, I bought a MacBook and I am happy with it; it has best price/performance ratio of all the Mac notebooks and I didn't want to spend too much money (just bought it for fun). But if Apple tried to sell a MacBook with Yonah while selling MacBook Pro with Merom, where I know exactly that they could get Merom chips at the same price as Yonahs, just for "product differentiation", I would tell them to stuff it.
Squire
Nov 26, 04:43 PM
The likelihood of an Apple tablet increases with time because the technology gets better. Here are some of my rumblings from some similar threads started in 2005.
I think the tablet idea is plausible. Here's why:
-Many people wouldn't think twice about buying a new iPod. One problem is everyone already has one. Another problem is that you can't do any "computing" with an iPod.
Enter the tablet. It has a pod-ish name to keep people interested. It plays video, if that's your thing. It's cross-platform compatible (files and stuff) and the bundled software is amazing. Non-Mac users weren't afraid of buying an iPod. Non-Mac-using iPod owners will not be afraid to buy this. It will give them a little taste of what OS X is all about.
I think Apple needs a product like this, especially with Palm's new LifeDrive out (a PDA with a 4GB hard drive).
...And...
hmmm....maybe it's some sort of glorified remote control with a touch-screen interface to manage all your media via wi-fi and/or BT between yor mac, airport, stereo & tv?
Some random thoughts:
Good point. I seem to recall reports of Steve just grinning when asked about the problem of getting up and walking to your computer to change tracks (Walt Mossberg referring to the AirPort Express).
The thought of a video iPod doubling as an AE remote, although initially interesting, seems a bit out of whack. I wouldn't want a remote control any larger (width-wise, anyway) than a normal iPod. And I wouldn't want an iPod video any smaller than the current iPod.
Ever notice how Steve gives a reason for almost everything they do, especially if they were originally against doing it?
* entering the mp3 market: The devices had a limited capacity and/or terrible UI.
* iPod photo: Finally there was some content to display (while there was no content providers for portable video players) [Now, of course, there are music videos.]
* Flash-based mp3 players: They have crappy little screens and cumbersome controls. Solution= ditch the screen and make simple controls.
* Tablets: Who knows? They'll refine them or give us a good enough reason to want one. Same goes for video iPod, I guess.
Squire
I think the tablet idea is plausible. Here's why:
-Many people wouldn't think twice about buying a new iPod. One problem is everyone already has one. Another problem is that you can't do any "computing" with an iPod.
Enter the tablet. It has a pod-ish name to keep people interested. It plays video, if that's your thing. It's cross-platform compatible (files and stuff) and the bundled software is amazing. Non-Mac users weren't afraid of buying an iPod. Non-Mac-using iPod owners will not be afraid to buy this. It will give them a little taste of what OS X is all about.
I think Apple needs a product like this, especially with Palm's new LifeDrive out (a PDA with a 4GB hard drive).
...And...
hmmm....maybe it's some sort of glorified remote control with a touch-screen interface to manage all your media via wi-fi and/or BT between yor mac, airport, stereo & tv?
Some random thoughts:
Good point. I seem to recall reports of Steve just grinning when asked about the problem of getting up and walking to your computer to change tracks (Walt Mossberg referring to the AirPort Express).
The thought of a video iPod doubling as an AE remote, although initially interesting, seems a bit out of whack. I wouldn't want a remote control any larger (width-wise, anyway) than a normal iPod. And I wouldn't want an iPod video any smaller than the current iPod.
Ever notice how Steve gives a reason for almost everything they do, especially if they were originally against doing it?
* entering the mp3 market: The devices had a limited capacity and/or terrible UI.
* iPod photo: Finally there was some content to display (while there was no content providers for portable video players) [Now, of course, there are music videos.]
* Flash-based mp3 players: They have crappy little screens and cumbersome controls. Solution= ditch the screen and make simple controls.
* Tablets: Who knows? They'll refine them or give us a good enough reason to want one. Same goes for video iPod, I guess.
Squire
ciTiger
May 6, 07:50 AM
Of course they will move to ARM, everyone will. Google is allready running their data centres on ARM based servers, Windows 8 will run on ARM as well, Apple is investing huge amount of money into their A4, A5 chips. The main problem of computers nowadays is power efficiency and not computing power, because most of the computers allready are overpowerd for what their users usually do with them.
Quite true... Most but not all... And Apple prizes themselves on having a "professional" line. So some products would have to remain out, but Apple usually likes to stick to one thing...
But I really think we are still a few years away from it...
Quite true... Most but not all... And Apple prizes themselves on having a "professional" line. So some products would have to remain out, but Apple usually likes to stick to one thing...
But I really think we are still a few years away from it...
Kalach
Apr 21, 02:56 PM
wow! a redesign to the mac pro would be great :D
Willis
Sep 16, 09:32 AM
Oooo updates.. yay!
You know, I love the Macbook, but I love the MBP too. I just hope the price comes down a bit so I could get one comfotably with work discount. :o If not, MB it shall be in the new year
You know, I love the Macbook, but I love the MBP too. I just hope the price comes down a bit so I could get one comfotably with work discount. :o If not, MB it shall be in the new year
G4-power
Nov 3, 11:01 AM
Now we need someone to test it on an iPod touch, I'd be thrilled to see it work on an iPod. On the other hand, at that price (car kit + app) you can get a very decent Tomtom dedicated GPS-navigator and use your iPod for something else...
iFanboy
Mar 30, 05:41 PM
Dear Apple
PLEASE can we have a UI update, even if it's a minor one (for instance, iTunes 10 scrollbars rather than the blue aqua ones). Just some extra polish really.
Signed
iFanboy
PLEASE can we have a UI update, even if it's a minor one (for instance, iTunes 10 scrollbars rather than the blue aqua ones). Just some extra polish really.
Signed
iFanboy
artpease
Aug 4, 02:27 AM
My money is on iMac and iPod nano updates in Paris, MacBook in November, the Long awaited Media Mac Mini at Macworld, new video iPod along with the launch of iTunes Video Store, as well as the long rumored new games for the iPod. Maybe a new iSight that is small enough to clip onto the iPod? Bah, I am getting way too carried away. Back to the point, since this is a pro targeted conference, it makes perfect sense for the MacBook Pro and Mac Pro to make appearances.
A little over the top, but agreed. WWDC is a developer confernce, so Leopard and the Mac Pro. I'd be surprised if he even mentions Merom. Forget about MB, they just came out and Steve won't kill sales during the back to school promo. Geez, he's a genius, not a moron...
A little over the top, but agreed. WWDC is a developer confernce, so Leopard and the Mac Pro. I'd be surprised if he even mentions Merom. Forget about MB, they just came out and Steve won't kill sales during the back to school promo. Geez, he's a genius, not a moron...
maddonkey
Sep 11, 12:45 PM
Has anybody noticed that the shipping times for all Macbooks have gone up to 5-7 days?
citizenzen
Apr 14, 05:23 PM
I think we can all agree that there is a lot of waste in government. The fact is, a lot of it is hard to find.
I'd try to take the time to find it.
There are people who specialize in that.
Let them loose. See what they find.
I'd try to take the time to find it.
There are people who specialize in that.
Let them loose. See what they find.
dom91932
May 8, 05:36 PM
This has never happened
I meant it might happen, it's just a thought.
I meant it might happen, it's just a thought.
ChickenSwartz
Aug 2, 08:58 PM
Go to Intel's website. You will notice they only mention the Intel Core 2 Duo as a desktop processor �not a mobile processor. Merom is not officially announced or it would be listed on their website.
http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20060727comp.htm
"Intel Corporation today unveiled 10 Intel� Core� 2 Duo and Intel� Core� 2 Extreme processors for consumer and business desktop and laptop PCs..."
The article later goes on to show the advantages of the Mobile PC Processor.
Merom is officially announced. They just don't say Merom.
http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20060727comp.htm
"Intel Corporation today unveiled 10 Intel� Core� 2 Duo and Intel� Core� 2 Extreme processors for consumer and business desktop and laptop PCs..."
The article later goes on to show the advantages of the Mobile PC Processor.
Merom is officially announced. They just don't say Merom.
appleguy123
May 2, 11:01 PM
In I haven't read the rules yet, so there's a small chance that that might change.
ten-oak-druid
Apr 7, 01:19 PM
LOL:
"Kill the Competition"
"Monopoly"
etc.
Look Samsung shipped 2 million of their first tablets and they haven't all sold yet. If they had Sumsung would report that to you. The Xoom has only sold 100k in a period of time the ipad 2 has sold much more.
Lets look to see how things shake up when the competition sells out of their current inventories before cries of unfair competition get hurled about.
Motorola is not trying to buy the same quantities as Apple. That would be self destructive given the poor sales numbers. They buy what they hope they can sell.
"Kill the Competition"
"Monopoly"
etc.
Look Samsung shipped 2 million of their first tablets and they haven't all sold yet. If they had Sumsung would report that to you. The Xoom has only sold 100k in a period of time the ipad 2 has sold much more.
Lets look to see how things shake up when the competition sells out of their current inventories before cries of unfair competition get hurled about.
Motorola is not trying to buy the same quantities as Apple. That would be self destructive given the poor sales numbers. They buy what they hope they can sell.
Stella
Apr 18, 04:20 PM
Actually, YOU win. The United States provides for patents to "promote" and "further" advancements in the things that we all come here to discuss everyday. One can argue the merits of such a system but that is one of the purposes of the patent laws. Basically, incentive to make the world a better place for all.
Take away the incentive and there might not be as much innovation.
What you describe is the ideal world.. however, patents are abused these days.
Patents are used to squash competition, and in many occasions, they have done. Company A sues Company B to bankrupcy over patent dispute. Company B held the patent...
Take away the incentive and there might not be as much innovation.
What you describe is the ideal world.. however, patents are abused these days.
Patents are used to squash competition, and in many occasions, they have done. Company A sues Company B to bankrupcy over patent dispute. Company B held the patent...
wizard
Mar 29, 03:55 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)
What a stupid statement. Are you aware that Apple is an American company? So is Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, Oracle, Cisco, GE and other world-leading companies.
What's your alternative? Can you even name more than one world-class Chinese company?
*rolls eyes*
Yeah buddy I am. Are you aware that on every Apple Device it says "DESIGNED IN CALIFORNIA, ASSEMBLED IN CHINA."
There is a reason we do not build these products and it has been well covered through this thread. Can you name any good products made by those companies that you mentioned, that are actually built in the US. You know America SUCKS at making products when we need the media to convince us of this fact. Just watch TV, you do not see Apple advertising that they make there products in China, but you do see a bunch of other companies that slap a "Made in the USA" label gain Patriot approval. I avoid those products and save my money for products that have better quality; I dont innately hate american products, but experience has proved that they are inferior to build qualities of other nations. :apple::D
You really don't know what you are talking about. Many American businesses are world class. That doesn't include 2/3rds of the American auto industry sadly but GM made a management decision to sell crap and Chrysler never did sell anything of quality. However just because one industry is less than stellar it doesn't mean all are.
I'm not sure where you are on this planet but where I'm at we export a great deal of stuff to the rest of the world. Some of it even consumer level.
A wise person shops with an open mind. You seem to have closed yours and thus send all your dollars over seas. Sad really.
What a stupid statement. Are you aware that Apple is an American company? So is Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, Oracle, Cisco, GE and other world-leading companies.
What's your alternative? Can you even name more than one world-class Chinese company?
*rolls eyes*
Yeah buddy I am. Are you aware that on every Apple Device it says "DESIGNED IN CALIFORNIA, ASSEMBLED IN CHINA."
There is a reason we do not build these products and it has been well covered through this thread. Can you name any good products made by those companies that you mentioned, that are actually built in the US. You know America SUCKS at making products when we need the media to convince us of this fact. Just watch TV, you do not see Apple advertising that they make there products in China, but you do see a bunch of other companies that slap a "Made in the USA" label gain Patriot approval. I avoid those products and save my money for products that have better quality; I dont innately hate american products, but experience has proved that they are inferior to build qualities of other nations. :apple::D
You really don't know what you are talking about. Many American businesses are world class. That doesn't include 2/3rds of the American auto industry sadly but GM made a management decision to sell crap and Chrysler never did sell anything of quality. However just because one industry is less than stellar it doesn't mean all are.
I'm not sure where you are on this planet but where I'm at we export a great deal of stuff to the rest of the world. Some of it even consumer level.
A wise person shops with an open mind. You seem to have closed yours and thus send all your dollars over seas. Sad really.
LordTyroxx
Apr 5, 03:38 PM
I mean a car from 20 years ago runs fine if you haven't driven any other car. The internet from 10 years ago would be fine if you had never experienced todays broadband. Hell life as a virgin would be cool if you didn't know what sex was.
When you say your phone is far from unusable, its like a virgin saying life without sex is awesome.
Well Cydia is like being a virgin then having sex with a whore then getting STDs that constantly slow down your OS. It might be good in the short term, but you'll have to work hard to keep the swelling down with various lotions and creams. But unlike STDs, you can revert to a clean version of the OS anytime you want. :P
When you say your phone is far from unusable, its like a virgin saying life without sex is awesome.
Well Cydia is like being a virgin then having sex with a whore then getting STDs that constantly slow down your OS. It might be good in the short term, but you'll have to work hard to keep the swelling down with various lotions and creams. But unlike STDs, you can revert to a clean version of the OS anytime you want. :P
rtcruz1
Apr 26, 04:22 PM
The way the Android OS is structured, and with the number of manufacturers making Android based smartphones, it would only be a matter time before the total number outgrew what one manufacturer of one phone could make.
-aggie-
May 4, 03:54 PM
I'd say go ahead, but I'm somewhat confused in what the villain can do. He gets to see our moves, so he can just put a trap anywhere?
I'm against splitting until we level up.
I'm against splitting until we level up.
mdntcallr
Nov 22, 08:31 AM
i am sure apple is finding the world of phone carriers complex and difficult.
The biggest hangup of theirs is probably the sale of media and ringtones. They simply probably do NOT want Apple to provide the solution. Even if Apple's storefront is better, they will not want money going elsewhere.
that said, Apple's best option here is to simply launch the product themselves. Offer a GSM phone that is unlocked. The phone companies will get a clue later on when people want the product
The biggest hangup of theirs is probably the sale of media and ringtones. They simply probably do NOT want Apple to provide the solution. Even if Apple's storefront is better, they will not want money going elsewhere.
that said, Apple's best option here is to simply launch the product themselves. Offer a GSM phone that is unlocked. The phone companies will get a clue later on when people want the product